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  • 1.  Papilledema

    Posted 3 hours ago
    A hypothetical question please: can untreated Frissen grade 2 papilledema for let's say several months be as damaging as Frissen grade 3 or 4 for a shorter period of time?

    Thanks,
    Steven Kane


  • 2.  RE: Papilledema

    Posted 2 hours ago
    This could be a pseudo papilledema on top of true papilledema due gliosis , this may lead to erroneous decisions as regards falsely non resolving papilledema , here the disc elevation must not be the only denominator of presence of active disease so a case like this in the follow up the whole examination must be repeated including history and symptomatology comparison from the last visit and of course repeating the visual fields , Frisen 2 may be problematic in follow up than higher grades 





  • 3.  RE: Papilledema

    Posted 2 hours ago
    In the IIHTT, patients with grade 2 or less papilledema in the placebo plus weight loss group do not lose vision, while patients grade 3 or above in the same group had a 14% rate of worsening (6 out of 44 study eyes) (by comparison only 1 out of 46 (2.2%) in the acetazolmide group worsened. Based on these results, many of us have been monitoring patients with grade 2 or less papilledema now for over 10 years and while I cannot speak to others' experiences, I have not had any patients who remained with garde 2 disc edema lose vision under observation. Not to say patients can't have worsening of disc edema and then lose vision, but with appropriate monitoring we would catch worsening of optic disc edema prior to vision loss and then initiate treatment.

    Best,

    Drew






  • 4.  RE: Papilledema

    Posted an hour ago
    I agree with that. I now have two cases of pseudopapilledema referred by optometrists I think, at least one of them was, that were followed with rock solid identical photographs for years and then blew up into real papilledema. I found it disquieting - how many of these pseudopapilledcemas are mild real papilledema? I don’t really think so for mine at least since there was zero fluctuation and they were hyperopic and no vision loss or other symptoms, and when they blew up they had symptoms. I think a contributing factor for such a situation being not uncommon is that many of these patients are referred because they are heavy, on top of a somewhat suspicious nerve, and these are the demographic that can go on to have IIH of course.




  • 5.  RE: Papilledema

    Posted an hour ago
    Quite an out of context question Steve. What are you referring to? Frisen Grade II in my experience does no damage.
    +=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
    Scott Forman, MD
    Senior Fellow North American Neuro-ophthalmology Society

    Adult and Pediatric Neuro-ophthalmology
    Comprehensive Ophthalmology
    Functional Medicine













  • 6.  RE: Papilledema

    Posted an hour ago
    Scott,

    The context is hypothetical. Trying to put together a picture of Documented IIH with only Frissen II and OU optic atrophy appearing a couple of months after initial recognition.  We agree that Frissen II is usually not a bad player. Pretty confident there's no drusen. This story does not add up for me. Hence I'm wondering about the unusual.  Steven






  • 7.  RE: Papilledema

    Posted 29 minutes ago
    Could have been a higher grade earlier that is now in the atrophic phase , so only looks like a grade II. 






  • 8.  RE: Papilledema

    Posted 14 minutes ago
    Missing from the hypothetical situaiton is the vision... The IIHTT only included patients with mild vision loss (mean deviation -2 up to -7 db). if there was more severe vision loss or progressive vision loss at low grade papilledema you'd have to think about mimickers such as simultaneous optic neuritis / NAION / LHON / toxic optic neuropathy.






  • 9.  RE: Papilledema

    Posted 4 minutes ago
    Thanks Andrew.  Such other ideas were pursued.  SKane





  • 10.  RE: Papilledema

    Posted 6 minutes ago
    Thanks Floyd.  That's one of my ideas too.  Steven